@sneak @kick

one observation is that a conformant AP server is actually not required to care about deletes at all. the specification states that you *should* delete any local copy of the data, but does not say that you *must*.

and so even a Pleroma configured to drop delete activities is still conformant, even though that is clearly not the intended behavior in the spec.

and political compromises like this are why activitypub is a nightmare.

@kaniini @kick how is that political and how is it a compromise and why would it make it a nightmare even if that were all the case? i'm confused what the issue is

@sneak @kick

it is a compromise because the W3C could not decide whether or not to mandate a conformant implementation respect deletes.

note I say conformant here which is different than compatible. conformance is used in many specifications along with trademark licensing to ensure that implementations do not do naughty things.

"security considerations are non-normative" is another compromise in the AP spec that has basically set the protocol up for fragmentation and regulatory capture by mastodon and pleroma. and that's where we are today, isn't it?

@kaniini @kick "regulatory capture" is a term that means something entirely different than the thing you just used it here to describe. the w3c is not a regulatory body.

@sneak @kick actually, the role of the W3C SocialCG is, bluntly, to steer and thus regulate the direction of ActivityPub. so the W3C SocialCG *is* a regulatory body, in the same way that Underwriter's Laboratories is a regulatory body. not all regulation is done by the state.

@kaniini @kick i can make an argument that presuming/demanding that others must honor your deletes after publication is way more antisocial.

@kaniini @kick imagine if the nytimes editor called you up and demanded that you throw away your copy of the newspaper *right now* or you're a rude person

@sneak @kick that is way different than somebody who accidentally sent something to the wrong audience. not that you can actually select an audience in AP in any meaningful manner, but I digress.