i wonder if the tire fire that is systemd happened because linus didn't ever take ownership/responsibility for a userspace and just punted that forever to GNU (which has always sucked and will always suck)
@sneak I don't think I'm the only person who made the move from sysadmin to full-time developer after systemd showed up.
@alrs systemd is a mediocre attempt to fix the clusterfuck failure that is linux's de-facto userspace. it's not great but it's not terrible; the people who oppose it are doing so based on tradition grounds ("my userspace has always sucked and i hate anyone who tries to de-suck it and thus forces me to remember that the BSDs exist with non-shitty userspaces"). if linus had actually took responsibility for an OS instead of just the kernel, things would be better.
@sneak If systemd didn't touch logging I mostly wouldn't care. The strongarm move into Debian kinda killed Debian for me. I still use it, but now releases are depressing, not exciting.
@alrs i am not interested in your partisan minutiae. it does not matter what systemd touches or does not touch. it's a bazaar, remember? there are like a thousand distros, including like a dozen that only exist as examples of permanent poettering-rage.
it's all just an example of linux idiots embracing worse is better "because this is how we've always done it".
@alrs docker makes the distro irrelevant, disk and network are cheap now, just put all your deps as a complete root in the layer tarball and be happy. you can even mount in your x socket.
@sneak kinda, except now you're on the hook for keeping up with the mailing list for every library in every container, and you're back to Slackware ca. 1995. We couldn't keep up when it was one admin per machine back then, now that it's one admin for hundreds or thousands of machines.
@sneak I first used UNIX before Linux existed. I'll take GNU userspace over what shipped in sunOS any day. I'll take having /etc/nsswitch.conf come in with the OS install instead of needing to write it myself, a la HPUX. I hope I'm getting my tone right, I'm just talking about what I like, not what I think you should like.
@sneak I'm doing what I'm doing, and explaining why I'm happy. If I was doing things the way I used to do them, I'd be hewing as close to packaged Debian libraries as I could and being thankful for having the world's largest volunteer-run CI system doing its thing for free. I hope I don't sound angry, I'm melancholic.