https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html
rms himself writes (in (3)) about why the AGPL is nonfree.
@sneak AGPL doesn’t restrict you from that.
@arh number 3 - "when you wish". i may wish to make no copies of my modified server software, and never distribute them. AGPL prevents this.
@sneak yeah you have a point. I’ll ask RMS and FSF about this.
@arh they redefined "user" to be the person making the http requests and not the person, you know, who actually edited and is running the software on the computers they own, because they're anti-capitalists who don't believe in the concept of private property when it comes to information. they have a stock retort for when they are accused of this which does not actually refute the issue.
they redefined “user” to be the person making the http requests and not the person, you know, who actually edited and is running the software on the computers they own
Say if I borrow your machine, @sneak, and use the software on it, who will be the user, you or me? What software does is transforming data from one form to the other, which makes usage the transformation of data and user the one giving the input and taking the output (in various format). The additional clauses of AGPL (compared to GPL) close the loop hole of SaaSS. Who at which end of e.g. the HTTP requests is not the deal breaker, but who actually uses the software, to be provided as a service or not.
they’re anti-capitalists
The entire concept of software freedom, including copyleft, in contrary to popular belief, is pro-capitalism, by facilitating a free market and competition. Copyright, on the other hand, is about monopolistic power and as anti-capitalism as possible, but I was told that it’s supposed to encourage creativity so 
[they] don’t believe in the concept of private property when it comes to information
I can see your confusion here. Back to the hypothetical scenario, per private property rights alone nothing would prevent me from make an exact copy of your machine when I borrow it and the same for the software. The reason an user of a SaaSS cannot do so is not because private property, but copyright.
I hope this clarifies it for you as well, @arh
@xarvos @arh @cnx you don't. it's not yours. it's private. it's the same as if you asked me over the phone to add some numbers together and i did, and told you the result, and then suddenly felt entitled to a copy of my hard drive. it's lunacy to redefine "user" to someone who is not running the software (and indeed never had/touched the software!)
@sneak, in that case, you are the user because you put the input in and take the output out and directly provide the service to me. In other words, from my point of view it is you, with computer assistance or not, who adds the numbers for me.
Your presence is the key to the interpretation of the scenario on weather or not I am the user. Similarly, it’s different in case e.g. you personally pump my tires vs you leave the pump there for me to do it myself. The reason for this is that only human beings can be held accountable and have rights under the eyes of the laws, not tools, digital or not. Cc: @xarvos