@berkes @doenietzomoeilijk being european, you have no experience with how good home field amazon actually is. they do same day or very early next day delivery on a range of items larger than all of the european amazon stores combined. the ux of amazon.com vs amazon.{everythignelse} is basically incomparable

@berkes @doenietzomoeilijk soap was just the example, the reason i'm on there is for the million other items that are available with free shipping and one click. it's the everything store and most of everything will arrive tomorrow. there is absolutely nothing comparable to it here or there and it's not a matter of monopoly, it's a matter of scale/size/reach. (not saying they didn't use anticompetitive practices to get to this point, but they are now here)

@berkes @doenietzomoeilijk and i refuse to handicap myself in the name of activism, that's a way to become slow and useless.

@sneak @doenietzomoeilijk to summarize: you do business with a company known for being hostile to its users, then complain they are being hostile to their users. But refuse to handicap yourself in name of activism. Instead let that company be hostile to you and handicap you.

And when someone points this out, you show that the company isn't hostile to its users but actually the very best company to do business with? Is that an apt summary of your problem?

@berkes 🐝 🚐 🏄 🌱 @DoeNietZoMoeilijk 🥔 @sneak If you, on one hand, complain about #OsmAnd keeping track of map downloads and claim they're spyware for that, I really don't understand how you can be OK with using Amazon. Other than spying on its customers, it does a lot more harm to the world.

@hans @berkes @doenietzomoeilijk amazon knows only what i tell them about me

@sneak Yeah, and I'm the one who doesn't understand tracking... Sure.

@hans you are unfamiliar with my network or browser configuration

@berkes @sneak @doenietzomoeilijk

The "just move away from america if you don't like it" argument.

Or just "change to another oligopolic cell phone carrier bro' argument.

@surfingalot No.For one, because there is no oligopoly here. It's perfectly doable, even in the US, to order stuff online without going through amazon.

It may not be as convenient or as "lazy" (in the good way) but isn't hard either. As pointed out by Sneak himself in the long follow-up-thread.

It's nothing like "living in a country" because you cannot pick-and-choose. But with Amazon/Etsy/Shopify/Ebay/mom-pop-woocommerce/wallmart you can.

@berkes You can totally pick and choose which country you live in, if you put in enough effort! You know english, you don't seem dumb! You can do it!

It's the same with amazon. You can do other shit, if you put in enough effort too!

Sneak was elucidating it for you, and knowing how much effort sneak already puts into living a somewhat alternative life to the default get-tracked-by-everything life, there is a good reason why he says it's a different service level than you think.

@surfingalot no. Sneak was complaining that a company known for being hostile to its customers was hostile to a customer.

Which is a valid complaint.

But when someone points out the only, and most logical conclusion from that complaint, he replies that his complaint isn't really a valid complaint and that he accepted the tradeoff of that company being rude, because of the benefits that company brings him.

That makes no sense. Not if AMZN is a monopoly and not if it isn't.

@berkes @surfingalot well, accepting the trade-off might make sense, that's for everyone to decide for themselves. But yes, you can expect Amazon to be Amazon.

The only way to not be on the receiving end of that is, well, not to use their services, convenient as they may be. Not supporting a company with dubious ethics is a nice bonus.

@doenietzomoeilijk @berkes @surfingalot expecting amazon to be amazon does not encompass expecting amazon to commit criminal fraud against you

so now you know that criminal fraud is also part of their stream of consumer abuse. having reset expectations, what are you going to do? keep on advertising it, suck it up quietly, or confront it?

@sneak @berkes @surfingalot eh, frankly, yes, I fully expect them to commit any and all fuckery they can get away with.

With the obscene amount of money they have, and the amount of lawyer that buys, they get away with pretty much _anything_.

The only solutions: Amazon discovering morality (not gonna happen), laws forcing them to act moral-ish (might happen, eventually, maybe) and people deciding they want nothing to do with them anymore.

@berkes @surfingalot i was not complaining about them being customer-hostile. i was complaining about them committing criminal fraud. there is a difference.

@surfingalot first: tell that to all the refugees being detained all over the world: people cannot just live anywhere they wish. You and I are probably exceptions. I am.

Second: i cannot *pick and choose*. I cannot pay my tax as if I live in Cyprus, get free healthcare as if I live in the Netherlands, get an education in the US payed for as if I live in Norway and carry a gun as if I live in South Africa.

Free markets, of which AMZN is part, do allow me to pick and choose.

@surfingalot @berkes the s is not capitalized, even at the beginning of a sentence.

@berkes @surfingalot etsy blocks vpns. shopify doesn't carry most things i need. ebay is paypal and blocks all my payment cards because i closed my paypal account. mom-and-pop woocommerce don't carry the things i need. walmart is walmart.

got any other bright ideas?

clearly there's an unserved market need there. how about starting your own business or encouraging some enterprising acquaintance to serve it, instead of giving in to the abusers?

@sneak @surfingalot Amazon? Oh wait. They blocked you.

Or less snarky: Why is Amazon any better or worse than any of the numerous other options when they fucking block you. Something you say is even illegal. When they are acting illegal?

I truly don't understand why you are both defending Amazon and complaining about them in the same thread. Amazon sucks. But Amazon is also the best company to give your money at? How?

@berkes @surfingalot literally nobody else offers what they offer. if you think this is false, you do not understand what amazon.com offers.

help build a monopoly and it will eventually take care of handicapping you